tahun baru masehi

Raihan Danielsan wrote:

@mas Husada

Hijrah tidak hanya khusus ditujukan pada diri pribadi Rosulullah, namun juga terhadap kaum muslimin pada umumnya yg terlepas dari penindasan dan penganiayaan dari kaum kafir Quraisy dg keluar (hirah) dari kota Mekkah.

Sedangkan gelar al amin, bukanlah gelar yg diberikan oleh kaum muslimin kepada Nabi saw, melainkan gelar yg deberikan oleh penduduk Mekkah pada saat beliau belum menjadi Nabi

Ooo... begitu ya striker? Maaf kalau saya salah duga, salah kira, salah analisis.

Karena saya pernah membaca sedikit tentang Al Qur'an dan Terjemahannya dan kemudian tidak tertarik, maka saya tidak mendalami yang terkait dengan itu, termasuk tarikh Hijriah. Pengetahuan saya tentang tarikh itu hanya sebatas bahwa tarikh itu dihitung berdasarkan peredaran bulan mengelilingi bumi.

Begitu dari saya untuk sementara. Entahlah kalau nanti ada yang saya rasa perlu saya tanggapi, atau komentari, atau tanyakan, saya akan mem-posting di trit ini lagi.

Damai, damai, damai.

Raihan Danielsan wrote:

@mas Husada

Hijrah tidak hanya khusus ditujukan pada diri pribadi Rosulullah, namun juga terhadap kaum muslimin pada umumnya yg terlepas dari penindasan dan penganiayaan dari kaum kafir Quraisy dg keluar (hirah) dari kota Mekkah.

Apa korelasinya mas ?

Quote :

Sedangkan gelar al amin, bukanlah gelar yg diberikan oleh kaum muslimin kepada Nabi saw, melainkan gelar yg deberikan oleh penduduk Mekkah pada saat beliau belum menjadi Nabi

Ach,yang bener ...., apa mungkin kaum quraisy yg gak mengenal Tuhan mengerti arti kata ' amin ' .

Husada wrote:

Ooo... bisa jadi.

Dengan kata lain, striker menghendaki agar metode orang lain menetapkan penanggalan harus sama dengan metode dia atau metode orang yang diagungkannya menetapkan penanggalan. Dia lupa, sebelum metode penanggalan yang ditetapkannya atau orang yang diagungkannya tetapkan, sudah ada penanggalan yang lebih konsisten.

Atau, analisis, atau dugaan, atau perkiraan saya megenai itu berbeda dari yang striker alami? Entahlah.

Atau, mungkin striker tergoda oleh kata 'MASEHI' pada Tahun Masehi, atau Tahun Tuhan, atau Anno Domini. "Mengapa pula harus pakai Masehi, sementara penanggalan yang digunakan oleh orang yang selalu didatangi Malaikat Jibril (bukan Gabriel lho) tidak pakai kata "AMIN"? begitu pertanyaan dalam hatinya, karena nabinya dijuluki juga sebagai al Amin. Nah, karena menurut pemahamannya asal mula penanggalan Hijriah itu ditandai dengan hal-hal yang terkait dengan nabinya, maka penanggalan Masehi diharapkannya harus terkait erat dengan Isa al Maseh.

Apa benar begitu striker? Hehhehheee... baca lagi tulisan Bruce, Yesus Kristus tidak datang ke dunia untuk ngurusin penanggalan. Kalau penanggalan dinamai sebagai tahun Masehi, itu bukan urusan Yesus Kristus. Kedatangan Yesus Kristus ke dunia adalah untuk menyelamatkan manusia yang berkenan kepadaNya, yang mengikuti perkataanNya, dan melaksanakan perintahNya.

saya tinggal 1 tahun lamanya ternyata ladang masih 'rame' dan 'dame'

Saya tdk menyangka pertanyaan sederhana saya ini, yg juga membutuhkan jawaban yg sederhana, ternyata harus dianalisa dan diteliti dulu, maksud pertanyaan, maksud si penanya, dll... eh malah lari kesana kemari sampai ke Nabi dan urusan Yesus pula.. well well well kata 'hensikel'

saya gak menanyakan apakah yesus mengurusi tanggalan atau tidak, dan pertanyaan saya juga tdk menyangkutkan dengan keimanan kristen kok, jangan terlelu jauh dlm membawa perasaan utk pertanyaan saya... sensitip ya? baru datang bulan?

biaklah saya sederhanakan pertanyaan saya:
Utk natal sekarang itu ulang tahun Yesus yg keberapa? 2011 ataukah 2010.
Kalau yg ke 2011, berarti Yesus ditetapkan lahir 7 hari sebelum tahun 1, karena tahun 1 juga dihitung.
Kalau yg ke 2010, berarti Yesus ditetapkan lahir 25 December 0001, jadi natal kemarin itu ulang tahun Yesus yg ke 2010.

gak usah dipikir terlalu jauh pertanyaan saya, tdk menyangkut keimanan atau urusan yesus segala, pertanyaan sederhana ya dijawab sederhana pula, jadi yg nanya gak pusing, kan bisa dame dame dame to?

heinskle wrote:

Raihan Danielsan wrote:

@mas Husada

Hijrah tidak hanya khusus ditujukan pada diri pribadi Rosulullah, namun juga terhadap kaum muslimin pada umumnya yg terlepas dari penindasan dan penganiayaan dari kaum kafir Quraisy dg keluar (hirah) dari kota Mekkah.

Apa korelasinya mas ?

Quote :

Sedangkan gelar al amin, bukanlah gelar yg diberikan oleh kaum muslimin kepada Nabi saw, melainkan gelar yg deberikan oleh penduduk Mekkah pada saat beliau belum menjadi Nabi

Ach,yang bener ...., apa mungkin kaum quraisy yg gak mengenal Tuhan mengerti arti kata ' amin ' .

well well well...

Apakah menurut kamu kata 'amin' itu bahasa melayu, sehingga kamu quraisy tdk mengerti makna kata tersebut?

jangan banyak banyak makan jangan tewel, nanti bisa jadi wewe gombel

Arti kata amen dalam Kristen dan Yahudi, berbeda lho dengan amin dalam Islam.

striker wrote:

saya gak menanyakan apakah yesus mengurusi tanggalan atau tidak, dan pertanyaan saya juga tdk menyangkutkan dengan keimanan kristen kok, jangan terlelu jauh dlm membawa perasaan utk pertanyaan saya... sensitip ya? baru datang bulan?

Damai bagimu striker.

Karena striker menggunakan istilah datang bulan, rasanya jadi ingin mem-post inkosistensi yang melekat pada penanggalan Hijriah dibandingkan dengan penanggalan Masehi menurut pemahaman saya.

Sepanjang pemahaman saya, penanggalan Hijriah itu, karena dihitung berdasarkan peredaran bulan mengelilingi bumi, maka sering sekali penentuan suatu tanggal tertentu harus 'disediakan' dua tanggal. 'Penyediaan' dua tanggal tersebut adalah untuk
menjaga bilamana hilal belum kelihatan. Bila hilal belum kelihatan pada tanggal pertama (belum datang bulan?), maka tanggal yang dimaksud akan jatuh pada tanggal berikutnya. Hal itu berbeda dengan penanggalan Masehi. Penanggalan Masehi sudah menetapkan bahwa setiap empat tahun, akan menjadi tahun kabisat dimana jumlah hari selama bulan Pebruari adalah 29 hari.

Itu sedikit tambahan menurut pemahaman saya.

Damai bagimu striker.

bruce wrote:

Arti kata amen dalam Kristen dan Yahudi, berbeda lho dengan amin dalam Islam.

@bang bruce

Klu dalam bahasa Arab, kata “AMIN” mempunyai 4 makna, tergantung bagaimana cara membacanya (panjang dan pendeknya), bang bruce.

1. Kalau dibaca AMIIN, yaitu huruf “A” dibaca pendek & “MIN” dibaca panjang, maka maknanya adalah jujur, terpercaya, amanah

2. Kalau dibaca AAMIIN, yaitu huruf “A” & “MIN” dibaca sama-sama panjang, maka maknanya adalah Ya Tuhan kabulkanlah doa kami

3. Kalau dibaca AMIN, yaitu huruf “A” dan “MIN” dibaca sama-sama pendek, maka maknanya adalah aman, tentram

4. Kalau dibaca AAMIN, yaitu huruf “A” dibaca panjang & “MIN” dibaca pendek, maka maknanya adalah meminta perlindungan keamanan

bruce wrote:

Arti kata amen dalam Kristen dan Yahudi, berbeda lho dengan amin dalam Islam.

Kalau kata amen dlm kristen dan yahudi artinya apa ya mas kalau boleh tahu?

Raihan Danielsan wrote:

bruce wrote:

Arti kata amen dalam Kristen dan Yahudi, berbeda lho dengan amin dalam Islam.

@bang bruce

Klu dalam bahasa Arab, kata “AMIN” mempunyai 4 makna, tergantung bagaimana cara membacanya (panjang dan pendeknya), bang bruce.

1. Kalau dibaca AMIIN, yaitu huruf “A” dibaca pendek & “MIN” dibaca panjang, maka maknanya adalah jujur, terpercaya, amanah

2. Kalau dibaca AAMIIN, yaitu huruf “A” & “MIN” dibaca sama-sama panjang, maka maknanya adalah Ya Tuhan kabulkanlah doa kami

3. Kalau dibaca AMIN, yaitu huruf “A” dan “MIN” dibaca sama-sama pendek, maka maknanya adalah aman, tentram

4. Kalau dibaca AAMIN, yaitu huruf “A” dibaca panjang & “MIN” dibaca pendek, maka maknanya adalah meminta perlindungan keamanan

Well ...well ....well ...

Itu khan menurut ustadt anda bro ....
lain kepala lain tafsirannya bro ......

Dalam pengajaranNya, Jesus mengawali ucapanNya dengan kata “Amen, amen…”, di sini Yesus menegaskan segala yang akan diucapkan-Nya sebagai perintah; bukan seperti orang biasa yang mengatakan ‘amen’ diakhir doanya sebagai tanda ‘setuju’.

Untuk lengkapnya, mari kita lihat sbb

Scriptural use

I. In the Holy Scripture it appears almost invariably as an adverb, and its primary use is to indicate that the speaker adopts for his own what has already been said by another. Thus in Jeremiah 28:6, the prophet represents himself as answering to Hananias's prophecy of happier days; "Amen, the Lord perform the words which thou hast prophesied". And in the imprecations of Deuteronomy 27:14 sqq. we read, for example: "Cursed be he that honoureth not his father and mother, and all the people shall say Amen". From this, some liturgical use of the word appears to have developed long before the coming of Jesus Christ. Thus we may compare 1 Chronicles 16:36, "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from eternity; and let the people say Amen and a hymn to God", with Psalm 105:48, "Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel from everlasting: and let all the people say: so be it" (cf. also Nehemiah 8:6), these last words in the Septuagint being represented by genoito, genoito, and in the Vulgate, which follows the Septuagint by fiat, fiat; but the Massoretic text gives "Amen, Alleluia". Talmudic tradition tells us that Amen was not said in the Temple, but only in the synagogues (cf. Edersheim, The Temple, p. 127), but by this we probably ought to understand not that the saying Amen was forbidden in the Temple, but only that the response of the congregation, being delayed until the end for fear of interrupting the exceptional solemnity of the rite, demanded a more extensive and impressive formula than a simple Amen. The familiarity of the usage of saying Amen at the end of all prayers, even before the Christian era, is evidenced by Tobit 9:12.

II. A second use of Amen most common in the New Testament, but not quite unknown in the Old, has no reference to the words of any other person, but is simply a form of affirmation or confirmation of the speaker's own thought, sometimes introducing it, sometimes following it. Its employment as an introductory formula seems to be peculiar to the speeches of Our Saviour recorded in the Gospels, and it is noteworthy that, while in the Synoptists one Amen is used, in St. John the word is invariably doubled. (Cf. the double Amen of conclusion in Numbers 5:22, etc.) In the Catholic (i.e. the Reims) translation of the Gospels, the Hebrew word is for the most part retained, but in the Protestant "Authorized Version" it is rendered by "Verily". When Amen is thus used by Our Lord to introduce a statement He seems especially to make a demand upon the faith of His hearers in His word or in His power; e.g. John 8:58, "Amen, Amen, I say unto you, before Abraham was made, I am". In other parts of the New Testament, especially in the Epistles of St. Paul, Amen usually concludes a prayer or a doxology, e.g. Romans 11:36, "To Him be glory for ever. Amen." We also find it sometimes attached to blessings, e.g. Romans 15:33, "Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen"; but this usage is much rarer, and in many apparent instances, e.g. all those appealed to by Abbot Cabrol, the Amen is really a later interpolation.

III. Lastly the common practice of concluding any discourse or chapter of a subject with a doxology ending in Amen seems to have led to a third distinctive use of the word in which it appears as nothing more than a formula of conclusion — finis. In the best Greek codices the book of Tobias ends in this way with Amen, and the Vulgate gives it at the end of St. Luke's Gospel. This seems to be the best explanation of Apocalypse 3:14: "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness who is the beginning of the creation of God". The Amen who is also the beginning would thus suggest much the same idea as "I am Alpha and Omegain Scripture)" of Apocalypse 1:5, or "The first and the last" of Apocalypse 2:8.

Liturgical use

The employment of Amen in the synagogues as the people's answer to a prayer said aloud by a representative must no doubt have been adopted in their own worship by the Christians of the Apostolic age. This at least is the only natural sense in which to interpret the use of the word in 1 Corinthians 14:16, "Else if thou shall bless with the spirit, how shall he that holdeth the place of the unlearned say Amen to thy blessing?" (pos erei to amen epi te se eucharistia) where to amen seems clearly to mean "the customary Amen". In the beginning. however, its use seems to have been limited to the congregation, who made answer to some public prayer, and it was not spoken by him who offered the prayer (see yon der Goltz, Das Gebet in der ltesten Christenheit, p. 160). It is perhaps one of the most reliable indications of the early data of the "Didache" or "Teaching of the Twelve Apostles", that, although several short liturgical formulæ are embodied in this document, the word Amen occurs but once, and then in company with the word maranatha, apparently as an ejaculation of the assembly. As regards these liturgical formulæ in the "Didache", which include the Our Father, we may, however, perhaps suppose that the Amen was not written because it was taken for granted that after the doxology those present would answer Amen as a matter of course. Again, in the apocryphal but early "Acta Johannis" (ed. Bonnet, c. xciv, p. 197) we find a series of short prayers spoken by the Saint to which the bystanders regularly answer Amen. But it cannot have been very long before the Amen was in many cases added by the utterer of the prayer. We have a noteworthy instance in the prayer of St. Polycarp at his martyrdom, A.D. 155, on which occasion we are expressly told in a contemporary document that the executioners waited until Polycarp completed his prayer, and "pronounced the word Amen", before they kindled the fire by which he perished. We may fairly infer from this that before the middle of the second century it had become a familiar practice for one who prayed alone to add Amen by way of conclusion. This usage seems to have developed even in public worship, and in the second half of the fourth century, in the earliest form of the liturgy which affords us any safe data, that of the Apostolic Constitutions, we find that in only three instances is it clearly indicated that Amen is to be said by the congregation (i.e. after the Trisagion, after the "Prayer of Intercession", and at the reception of Communion); in the eight remaining instances in which Amen occurs, it was said, so far as we can judge, by the bishop himself who offered the prayer. From the lately-discovered Prayer Book of Bishop Serapion, which can be ascribed with certainty to the middle of the fourth century, we should infer that, with certain exceptions as regards the anaphora of the liturgy, every prayer consistently ended in Amen. In many cases no doubt the word was nothing more than a mere formula to mark the conclusion, but the real meaning was never altogether lost sight of. Thus, though St. Augustine and Pseudo-Ambrose may not be quite exact when they interpret Amen as verum est (it is true), they are not very remote from the general sense; and in the Middle Ages, on the other band, the word is often rendered with perfect accuracy. Thus, in an early "Expositio Missæ" published by Gerbert (Men. Lit. Alere, II, 276), we read: "Amen is a ratification by the people of what has been spoken, and it may be interpreted in our language as if they all said: May it so be done as the priest has prayed".
General as was the use of the Amen as a conclusion, there were for a long time certain liturgical formulas to which it was not added. It does not for the most part occur at the end of the early creeds, and a Decree of the Congregation of Rites (n. 3014, 9 June, 1853) has decided that it should not be spoken at the end of the form for the administration of baptism, where indeed it would be meaningless. On the other hand, in the Churches of the East Amen is still commonly said after the form of baptism, sometimes by the bystanders, sometimes by the priest himself. In the prayers of exorcism it is the person exorcised who is expected to say "Amen", and in the conferring of sacred orders, when the vestments, etc., are given to the candidate by the bishop with some prayer of benediction, it is again the candidate who responds, just as in the solemn blessing of the Mass the people answer in the person of the server. Still we cannot say that any uniform principle governs liturgical usage in this matter, for when at a High Mass the celebrant blesses the deacon before the latter goes to read the Gospel, it is the priest himself who says Amen. Similarly in the Sacrament of Penance and in the Sacrament of Extreme Unction it is the priest who adds Amen after the essential words of the sacramental form, although in the Sacrament of Confirmation this is done by the assistants. Further, it may be noticed that in past centuries certain local rites seem to have shown an extraordinary predilection for the use of the word Amen. In the Mozarabic ritual, for example, not only is it inserted after each clause of the long episcopal benediction, but it was repeated after each petition of the Pater Noster. A similar exaggeration may be found in various portions of the Coptic Liturgy.

Two special instances of the use of Amen seem to call for separate treatment. The first is the Amen formerly spoken by the people at the close of the great Prayer of Consecration in the liturgy. The second is that which was uttered by each of the faithful when he received the Body and Blood of Christ.

Amen after the consecration

With regard to what we have ventured to call the "great Prayer of Consecration" a few words of explanation are necessary. There can be no doubt that by the Christians of the earlier ages of the Church the precise moment of the conversion of the bread and wine upon the altar into the Body and Blood of Christ was not so clearly apprehended as it is now by us. They were satisfied to believe that the change was wrought in the course of a long "prayer of thanksgiving" (eucharistia), a prayer made up of several elements — preface, recitation of the words of institution, memento for living and dead, invocation of the Holy Ghost, etc. — which prayer they nevertheless conceived of as one "action" or consecration, to which, after a doxology, they responded by a solemn Amen. For a more detailed account of this aspect of the liturgy the reader must be referred to the article EPICLESIS. It must be sufficient to say here that the essential unity of the great Prayer of Consecration is very clearly brought before us in the account of St. Justin Martyr (A.D. 151) who, describing the Christian liturgy, says: "As soon as the common prayers are ended and they (the Christians) have saluted one another with a kiss, bread and wine and water are brought to the president, who receiving them gives praise to the Father of all things by the Son and Holy Spirit and makes a long thanksgiving (eucharistian epi poly) for the blessings which He has vouchsafed to bestow upon them, and when he has ended the prayers and thanksgiving, all the people that are present forthwith answer with acclamation 'Amen'". (Justin, I Apol., lxv, P.G., VI, 428). The existing liturgies both of the East and the West clearly bear witness to this primitive arrangement. In the Roman Liturgy the great consecrating prayer, or "action", of the Mass ends with the solemn doxology and Amen which immediately precede the Pater Noster. The other Amens which are found between the Preface and the Pater Noster can easily be shown to be relatively late additions. The Eastern liturgies also contain Amens similarly interpolated, and in particular the Amens which in several Oriental rites ape spoken immediately after the words of Institution, are not primitive. It may be noted that at the end of the seventeenth century the question of Amens in the Canon of the Mass acquired an adventitious importance on account of the controversy between Dom Claude de Vert and Père Lebrun regarding the secrecy of the Canon. It is now commonly admitted that in the primitive liturgies the words of the Canon were spoken aloud so as to be heard by the people. For some reason, the explanation of which is not obvious, the Amen immediately before the Pater Noster is omitted in the solemn Mass celebrated by the Pope on Easter day.

Amen after communion

The Amen which in many liturgies is spoken by the faithful at the moment of receiving Holy Communion may also be traced back to primitive usage. The Pontificale Romanum still prescribes that at the ordination of clerics and on other similar occasions the newly-ordained in receiving Communion should kiss the bishop's hand and answer Amen when the bishop says to them: "May the Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ keep thy soul unto everlasting life" (Corpus Domini, etc.). It is curious that in the lately-discovered Latin life of St. Melania the Younger, of the early fifth century, we are told how the Saint in receiving Communion before death answered Amen and kissed the hand of the bishop who had brought it (see Cardinal Rampella, Santa Melania Giuniore, 1905, p. 257). But the practice of answering Amen is older than this. It appears in the Canons of Hippolytus (No. 146) and in the Egyptian Church Order (p. 101). Further, Eusebius (Church History VI.43) tells a story of the heretic Novatian (c. 250), how, at the time of Communion, instead of Amen he made the people say "I will not go back to Pope Cornelius". Also we have evidently an echo of the same practice in the Acts of St. Perpetua, A.D. 202 (Armitage Robinson, St. Perpetua, pp. 68, 80), and probably in Tertullian's phrase about the Christian profaning in the amphitheatre the lips with which he had spoken Amen to greet the All-Holy (De Spect., xxv). But nearly all the Fathers supply illustrations of the practice, notably St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catech., v, 18, P.G., XXIII, 1125).

Other uses

Finally, we may note that the word Amen occurs not infrequently in early Christian inscriptions, and that it was often introduced into anathemas and gnostic spells. Moreover, as the Greek letters which form Amen according to their numerical values total 99 (alpha=1, mu=40, epsilon=8, nu=50), this number often appears in inscriptions, especially of Egyptian origin, and a sort of magical efficacy seems to have been attributed to its symbol. It should also be mentioned that the word Amen is still employed in the ritual both of Jews and Mohammedans.

bruce wrote:

Dalam pengajaranNya, Jesus mengawali ucapanNya dengan kata “Amen, amen…”, di sini Yesus menegaskan segala yang akan diucapkan-Nya sebagai perintah; bukan seperti orang biasa yang mengatakan ‘amen’ diakhir doanya sebagai tanda ‘setuju’.

Untuk lengkapnya, mari kita lihat sbb

Scriptural use

I. In the Holy Scripture it appears almost invariably as an adverb, and its primary use is to indicate that the speaker adopts for his own what has already been said by another. Thus in Jeremiah 28:6, the prophet represents himself as answering to Hananias's prophecy of happier days; "Amen, the Lord perform the words which thou hast prophesied". And in the imprecations of Deuteronomy 27:14 sqq. we read, for example: "Cursed be he that honoureth not his father and mother, and all the people shall say Amen". From this, some liturgical use of the word appears to have developed long before the coming of Jesus Christ. Thus we may compare 1 Chronicles 16:36, "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from eternity; and let the people say Amen and a hymn to God", with Psalm 105:48, "Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel from everlasting: and let all the people say: so be it" (cf. also Nehemiah 8:6), these last words in the Septuagint being represented by genoito, genoito, and in the Vulgate, which follows the Septuagint by fiat, fiat; but the Massoretic text gives "Amen, Alleluia". Talmudic tradition tells us that Amen was not said in the Temple, but only in the synagogues (cf. Edersheim, The Temple, p. 127), but by this we probably ought to understand not that the saying Amen was forbidden in the Temple, but only that the response of the congregation, being delayed until the end for fear of interrupting the exceptional solemnity of the rite, demanded a more extensive and impressive formula than a simple Amen. The familiarity of the usage of saying Amen at the end of all prayers, even before the Christian era, is evidenced by Tobit 9:12.

II. A second use of Amen most common in the New Testament, but not quite unknown in the Old, has no reference to the words of any other person, but is simply a form of affirmation or confirmation of the speaker's own thought, sometimes introducing it, sometimes following it. Its employment as an introductory formula seems to be peculiar to the speeches of Our Saviour recorded in the Gospels, and it is noteworthy that, while in the Synoptists one Amen is used, in St. John the word is invariably doubled. (Cf. the double Amen of conclusion in Numbers 5:22, etc.) In the Catholic (i.e. the Reims) translation of the Gospels, the Hebrew word is for the most part retained, but in the Protestant "Authorized Version" it is rendered by "Verily". When Amen is thus used by Our Lord to introduce a statement He seems especially to make a demand upon the faith of His hearers in His word or in His power; e.g. John 8:58, "Amen, Amen, I say unto you, before Abraham was made, I am". In other parts of the New Testament, especially in the Epistles of St. Paul, Amen usually concludes a prayer or a doxology, e.g. Romans 11:36, "To Him be glory for ever. Amen." We also find it sometimes attached to blessings, e.g. Romans 15:33, "Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen"; but this usage is much rarer, and in many apparent instances, e.g. all those appealed to by Abbot Cabrol, the Amen is really a later interpolation.

III. Lastly the common practice of concluding any discourse or chapter of a subject with a doxology ending in Amen seems to have led to a third distinctive use of the word in which it appears as nothing more than a formula of conclusion — finis. In the best Greek codices the book of Tobias ends in this way with Amen, and the Vulgate gives it at the end of St. Luke's Gospel. This seems to be the best explanation of Apocalypse 3:14: "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness who is the beginning of the creation of God". The Amen who is also the beginning would thus suggest much the same idea as "I am Alpha and Omegain Scripture)" of Apocalypse 1:5, or "The first and the last" of Apocalypse 2:8.

Liturgical use

The employment of Amen in the synagogues as the people's answer to a prayer said aloud by a representative must no doubt have been adopted in their own worship by the Christians of the Apostolic age. This at least is the only natural sense in which to interpret the use of the word in 1 Corinthians 14:16, "Else if thou shall bless with the spirit, how shall he that holdeth the place of the unlearned say Amen to thy blessing?" (pos erei to amen epi te se eucharistia) where to amen seems clearly to mean "the customary Amen". In the beginning. however, its use seems to have been limited to the congregation, who made answer to some public prayer, and it was not spoken by him who offered the prayer (see yon der Goltz, Das Gebet in der ltesten Christenheit, p. 160). It is perhaps one of the most reliable indications of the early data of the "Didache" or "Teaching of the Twelve Apostles", that, although several short liturgical formulæ are embodied in this document, the word Amen occurs but once, and then in company with the word maranatha, apparently as an ejaculation of the assembly. As regards these liturgical formulæ in the "Didache", which include the Our Father, we may, however, perhaps suppose that the Amen was not written because it was taken for granted that after the doxology those present would answer Amen as a matter of course. Again, in the apocryphal but early "Acta Johannis" (ed. Bonnet, c. xciv, p. 197) we find a series of short prayers spoken by the Saint to which the bystanders regularly answer Amen. But it cannot have been very long before the Amen was in many cases added by the utterer of the prayer. We have a noteworthy instance in the prayer of St. Polycarp at his martyrdom, A.D. 155, on which occasion we are expressly told in a contemporary document that the executioners waited until Polycarp completed his prayer, and "pronounced the word Amen", before they kindled the fire by which he perished. We may fairly infer from this that before the middle of the second century it had become a familiar practice for one who prayed alone to add Amen by way of conclusion. This usage seems to have developed even in public worship, and in the second half of the fourth century, in the earliest form of the liturgy which affords us any safe data, that of the Apostolic Constitutions, we find that in only three instances is it clearly indicated that Amen is to be said by the congregation (i.e. after the Trisagion, after the "Prayer of Intercession", and at the reception of Communion); in the eight remaining instances in which Amen occurs, it was said, so far as we can judge, by the bishop himself who offered the prayer. From the lately-discovered Prayer Book of Bishop Serapion, which can be ascribed with certainty to the middle of the fourth century, we should infer that, with certain exceptions as regards the anaphora of the liturgy, every prayer consistently ended in Amen. In many cases no doubt the word was nothing more than a mere formula to mark the conclusion, but the real meaning was never altogether lost sight of. Thus, though St. Augustine and Pseudo-Ambrose may not be quite exact when they interpret Amen as verum est (it is true), they are not very remote from the general sense; and in the Middle Ages, on the other band, the word is often rendered with perfect accuracy. Thus, in an early "Expositio Missæ" published by Gerbert (Men. Lit. Alere, II, 276), we read: "Amen is a ratification by the people of what has been spoken, and it may be interpreted in our language as if they all said: May it so be done as the priest has prayed".
General as was the use of the Amen as a conclusion, there were for a long time certain liturgical formulas to which it was not added. It does not for the most part occur at the end of the early creeds, and a Decree of the Congregation of Rites (n. 3014, 9 June, 1853) has decided that it should not be spoken at the end of the form for the administration of baptism, where indeed it would be meaningless. On the other hand, in the Churches of the East Amen is still commonly said after the form of baptism, sometimes by the bystanders, sometimes by the priest himself. In the prayers of exorcism it is the person exorcised who is expected to say "Amen", and in the conferring of sacred orders, when the vestments, etc., are given to the candidate by the bishop with some prayer of benediction, it is again the candidate who responds, just as in the solemn blessing of the Mass the people answer in the person of the server. Still we cannot say that any uniform principle governs liturgical usage in this matter, for when at a High Mass the celebrant blesses the deacon before the latter goes to read the Gospel, it is the priest himself who says Amen. Similarly in the Sacrament of Penance and in the Sacrament of Extreme Unction it is the priest who adds Amen after the essential words of the sacramental form, although in the Sacrament of Confirmation this is done by the assistants. Further, it may be noticed that in past centuries certain local rites seem to have shown an extraordinary predilection for the use of the word Amen. In the Mozarabic ritual, for example, not only is it inserted after each clause of the long episcopal benediction, but it was repeated after each petition of the Pater Noster. A similar exaggeration may be found in various portions of the Coptic Liturgy.

Two special instances of the use of Amen seem to call for separate treatment. The first is the Amen formerly spoken by the people at the close of the great Prayer of Consecration in the liturgy. The second is that which was uttered by each of the faithful when he received the Body and Blood of Christ.

Amen after the consecration

With regard to what we have ventured to call the "great Prayer of Consecration" a few words of explanation are necessary. There can be no doubt that by the Christians of the earlier ages of the Church the precise moment of the conversion of the bread and wine upon the altar into the Body and Blood of Christ was not so clearly apprehended as it is now by us. They were satisfied to believe that the change was wrought in the course of a long "prayer of thanksgiving" (eucharistia), a prayer made up of several elements — preface, recitation of the words of institution, memento for living and dead, invocation of the Holy Ghost, etc. — which prayer they nevertheless conceived of as one "action" or consecration, to which, after a doxology, they responded by a solemn Amen. For a more detailed account of this aspect of the liturgy the reader must be referred to the article EPICLESIS. It must be sufficient to say here that the essential unity of the great Prayer of Consecration is very clearly brought before us in the account of St. Justin Martyr (A.D. 151) who, describing the Christian liturgy, says: "As soon as the common prayers are ended and they (the Christians) have saluted one another with a kiss, bread and wine and water are brought to the president, who receiving them gives praise to the Father of all things by the Son and Holy Spirit and makes a long thanksgiving (eucharistian epi poly) for the blessings which He has vouchsafed to bestow upon them, and when he has ended the prayers and thanksgiving, all the people that are present forthwith answer with acclamation 'Amen'". (Justin, I Apol., lxv, P.G., VI, 428). The existing liturgies both of the East and the West clearly bear witness to this primitive arrangement. In the Roman Liturgy the great consecrating prayer, or "action", of the Mass ends with the solemn doxology and Amen which immediately precede the Pater Noster. The other Amens which are found between the Preface and the Pater Noster can easily be shown to be relatively late additions. The Eastern liturgies also contain Amens similarly interpolated, and in particular the Amens which in several Oriental rites ape spoken immediately after the words of Institution, are not primitive. It may be noted that at the end of the seventeenth century the question of Amens in the Canon of the Mass acquired an adventitious importance on account of the controversy between Dom Claude de Vert and Père Lebrun regarding the secrecy of the Canon. It is now commonly admitted that in the primitive liturgies the words of the Canon were spoken aloud so as to be heard by the people. For some reason, the explanation of which is not obvious, the Amen immediately before the Pater Noster is omitted in the solemn Mass celebrated by the Pope on Easter day.

Amen after communion

The Amen which in many liturgies is spoken by the faithful at the moment of receiving Holy Communion may also be traced back to primitive usage. The Pontificale Romanum still prescribes that at the ordination of clerics and on other similar occasions the newly-ordained in receiving Communion should kiss the bishop's hand and answer Amen when the bishop says to them: "May the Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ keep thy soul unto everlasting life" (Corpus Domini, etc.). It is curious that in the lately-discovered Latin life of St. Melania the Younger, of the early fifth century, we are told how the Saint in receiving Communion before death answered Amen and kissed the hand of the bishop who had brought it (see Cardinal Rampella, Santa Melania Giuniore, 1905, p. 257). But the practice of answering Amen is older than this. It appears in the Canons of Hippolytus (No. 146) and in the Egyptian Church Order (p. 101). Further, Eusebius (Church History VI.43) tells a story of the heretic Novatian (c. 250), how, at the time of Communion, instead of Amen he made the people say "I will not go back to Pope Cornelius". Also we have evidently an echo of the same practice in the Acts of St. Perpetua, A.D. 202 (Armitage Robinson, St. Perpetua, pp. 68, 80), and probably in Tertullian's phrase about the Christian profaning in the amphitheatre the lips with which he had spoken Amen to greet the All-Holy (De Spect., xxv). But nearly all the Fathers supply illustrations of the practice, notably St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catech., v, 18, P.G., XXIII, 1125).

Other uses

Finally, we may note that the word Amen occurs not infrequently in early Christian inscriptions, and that it was often introduced into anathemas and gnostic spells. Moreover, as the Greek letters which form Amen according to their numerical values total 99 (alpha=1, mu=40, epsilon=8, nu=50), this number often appears in inscriptions, especially of Egyptian origin, and a sort of magical efficacy seems to have been attributed to its symbol. It should also be mentioned that the word Amen is still employed in the ritual both of Jews and Mohammedans.

waduh pake kunci inggris jadi pucing nih

Tapi kok saya pernah liat di TV ketika pendeta berdo'a, para jemaat juga mengucapkan amen mas?

striker wrote:

bruce wrote:

Dalam pengajaranNya, Jesus mengawali ucapanNya dengan kata “Amen, amen…”, di sini Yesus menegaskan segala yang akan diucapkan-Nya sebagai perintah; bukan seperti orang biasa yang mengatakan ‘amen’ diakhir doanya sebagai tanda ‘setuju’.

Untuk lengkapnya, mari kita lihat sbb

Scriptural use

I. In the Holy Scripture it appears almost invariably as an adverb, and its primary use is to indicate that the speaker adopts for his own what has already been said by another. Thus in Jeremiah 28:6, the prophet represents himself as answering to Hananias's prophecy of happier days; "Amen, the Lord perform the words which thou hast prophesied". And in the imprecations of Deuteronomy 27:14 sqq. we read, for example: "Cursed be he that honoureth not his father and mother, and all the people shall say Amen". From this, some liturgical use of the word appears to have developed long before the coming of Jesus Christ. Thus we may compare 1 Chronicles 16:36, "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from eternity; and let the people say Amen and a hymn to God", with Psalm 105:48, "Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel from everlasting: and let all the people say: so be it" (cf. also Nehemiah 8:6), these last words in the Septuagint being represented by genoito, genoito, and in the Vulgate, which follows the Septuagint by fiat, fiat; but the Massoretic text gives "Amen, Alleluia". Talmudic tradition tells us that Amen was not said in the Temple, but only in the synagogues (cf. Edersheim, The Temple, p. 127), but by this we probably ought to understand not that the saying Amen was forbidden in the Temple, but only that the response of the congregation, being delayed until the end for fear of interrupting the exceptional solemnity of the rite, demanded a more extensive and impressive formula than a simple Amen. The familiarity of the usage of saying Amen at the end of all prayers, even before the Christian era, is evidenced by Tobit 9:12.

II. A second use of Amen most common in the New Testament, but not quite unknown in the Old, has no reference to the words of any other person, but is simply a form of affirmation or confirmation of the speaker's own thought, sometimes introducing it, sometimes following it. Its employment as an introductory formula seems to be peculiar to the speeches of Our Saviour recorded in the Gospels, and it is noteworthy that, while in the Synoptists one Amen is used, in St. John the word is invariably doubled. (Cf. the double Amen of conclusion in Numbers 5:22, etc.) In the Catholic (i.e. the Reims) translation of the Gospels, the Hebrew word is for the most part retained, but in the Protestant "Authorized Version" it is rendered by "Verily". When Amen is thus used by Our Lord to introduce a statement He seems especially to make a demand upon the faith of His hearers in His word or in His power; e.g. John 8:58, "Amen, Amen, I say unto you, before Abraham was made, I am". In other parts of the New Testament, especially in the Epistles of St. Paul, Amen usually concludes a prayer or a doxology, e.g. Romans 11:36, "To Him be glory for ever. Amen." We also find it sometimes attached to blessings, e.g. Romans 15:33, "Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen"; but this usage is much rarer, and in many apparent instances, e.g. all those appealed to by Abbot Cabrol, the Amen is really a later interpolation.

III. Lastly the common practice of concluding any discourse or chapter of a subject with a doxology ending in Amen seems to have led to a third distinctive use of the word in which it appears as nothing more than a formula of conclusion — finis. In the best Greek codices the book of Tobias ends in this way with Amen, and the Vulgate gives it at the end of St. Luke's Gospel. This seems to be the best explanation of Apocalypse 3:14: "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness who is the beginning of the creation of God". The Amen who is also the beginning would thus suggest much the same idea as "I am Alpha and Omegain Scripture)" of Apocalypse 1:5, or "The first and the last" of Apocalypse 2:8.

Liturgical use

The employment of Amen in the synagogues as the people's answer to a prayer said aloud by a representative must no doubt have been adopted in their own worship by the Christians of the Apostolic age. This at least is the only natural sense in which to interpret the use of the word in 1 Corinthians 14:16, "Else if thou shall bless with the spirit, how shall he that holdeth the place of the unlearned say Amen to thy blessing?" (pos erei to amen epi te se eucharistia) where to amen seems clearly to mean "the customary Amen". In the beginning. however, its use seems to have been limited to the congregation, who made answer to some public prayer, and it was not spoken by him who offered the prayer (see yon der Goltz, Das Gebet in der ltesten Christenheit, p. 160). It is perhaps one of the most reliable indications of the early data of the "Didache" or "Teaching of the Twelve Apostles", that, although several short liturgical formulæ are embodied in this document, the word Amen occurs but once, and then in company with the word maranatha, apparently as an ejaculation of the assembly. As regards these liturgical formulæ in the "Didache", which include the Our Father, we may, however, perhaps suppose that the Amen was not written because it was taken for granted that after the doxology those present would answer Amen as a matter of course. Again, in the apocryphal but early "Acta Johannis" (ed. Bonnet, c. xciv, p. 197) we find a series of short prayers spoken by the Saint to which the bystanders regularly answer Amen. But it cannot have been very long before the Amen was in many cases added by the utterer of the prayer. We have a noteworthy instance in the prayer of St. Polycarp at his martyrdom, A.D. 155, on which occasion we are expressly told in a contemporary document that the executioners waited until Polycarp completed his prayer, and "pronounced the word Amen", before they kindled the fire by which he perished. We may fairly infer from this that before the middle of the second century it had become a familiar practice for one who prayed alone to add Amen by way of conclusion. This usage seems to have developed even in public worship, and in the second half of the fourth century, in the earliest form of the liturgy which affords us any safe data, that of the Apostolic Constitutions, we find that in only three instances is it clearly indicated that Amen is to be said by the congregation (i.e. after the Trisagion, after the "Prayer of Intercession", and at the reception of Communion); in the eight remaining instances in which Amen occurs, it was said, so far as we can judge, by the bishop himself who offered the prayer. From the lately-discovered Prayer Book of Bishop Serapion, which can be ascribed with certainty to the middle of the fourth century, we should infer that, with certain exceptions as regards the anaphora of the liturgy, every prayer consistently ended in Amen. In many cases no doubt the word was nothing more than a mere formula to mark the conclusion, but the real meaning was never altogether lost sight of. Thus, though St. Augustine and Pseudo-Ambrose may not be quite exact when they interpret Amen as verum est (it is true), they are not very remote from the general sense; and in the Middle Ages, on the other band, the word is often rendered with perfect accuracy. Thus, in an early "Expositio Missæ" published by Gerbert (Men. Lit. Alere, II, 276), we read: "Amen is a ratification by the people of what has been spoken, and it may be interpreted in our language as if they all said: May it so be done as the priest has prayed".
General as was the use of the Amen as a conclusion, there were for a long time certain liturgical formulas to which it was not added. It does not for the most part occur at the end of the early creeds, and a Decree of the Congregation of Rites (n. 3014, 9 June, 1853) has decided that it should not be spoken at the end of the form for the administration of baptism, where indeed it would be meaningless. On the other hand, in the Churches of the East Amen is still commonly said after the form of baptism, sometimes by the bystanders, sometimes by the priest himself. In the prayers of exorcism it is the person exorcised who is expected to say "Amen", and in the conferring of sacred orders, when the vestments, etc., are given to the candidate by the bishop with some prayer of benediction, it is again the candidate who responds, just as in the solemn blessing of the Mass the people answer in the person of the server. Still we cannot say that any uniform principle governs liturgical usage in this matter, for when at a High Mass the celebrant blesses the deacon before the latter goes to read the Gospel, it is the priest himself who says Amen. Similarly in the Sacrament of Penance and in the Sacrament of Extreme Unction it is the priest who adds Amen after the essential words of the sacramental form, although in the Sacrament of Confirmation this is done by the assistants. Further, it may be noticed that in past centuries certain local rites seem to have shown an extraordinary predilection for the use of the word Amen. In the Mozarabic ritual, for example, not only is it inserted after each clause of the long episcopal benediction, but it was repeated after each petition of the Pater Noster. A similar exaggeration may be found in various portions of the Coptic Liturgy.

Two special instances of the use of Amen seem to call for separate treatment. The first is the Amen formerly spoken by the people at the close of the great Prayer of Consecration in the liturgy. The second is that which was uttered by each of the faithful when he received the Body and Blood of Christ.

Amen after the consecration

With regard to what we have ventured to call the "great Prayer of Consecration" a few words of explanation are necessary. There can be no doubt that by the Christians of the earlier ages of the Church the precise moment of the conversion of the bread and wine upon the altar into the Body and Blood of Christ was not so clearly apprehended as it is now by us. They were satisfied to believe that the change was wrought in the course of a long "prayer of thanksgiving" (eucharistia), a prayer made up of several elements — preface, recitation of the words of institution, memento for living and dead, invocation of the Holy Ghost, etc. — which prayer they nevertheless conceived of as one "action" or consecration, to which, after a doxology, they responded by a solemn Amen. For a more detailed account of this aspect of the liturgy the reader must be referred to the article EPICLESIS. It must be sufficient to say here that the essential unity of the great Prayer of Consecration is very clearly brought before us in the account of St. Justin Martyr (A.D. 151) who, describing the Christian liturgy, says: "As soon as the common prayers are ended and they (the Christians) have saluted one another with a kiss, bread and wine and water are brought to the president, who receiving them gives praise to the Father of all things by the Son and Holy Spirit and makes a long thanksgiving (eucharistian epi poly) for the blessings which He has vouchsafed to bestow upon them, and when he has ended the prayers and thanksgiving, all the people that are present forthwith answer with acclamation 'Amen'". (Justin, I Apol., lxv, P.G., VI, 428). The existing liturgies both of the East and the West clearly bear witness to this primitive arrangement. In the Roman Liturgy the great consecrating prayer, or "action", of the Mass ends with the solemn doxology and Amen which immediately precede the Pater Noster. The other Amens which are found between the Preface and the Pater Noster can easily be shown to be relatively late additions. The Eastern liturgies also contain Amens similarly interpolated, and in particular the Amens which in several Oriental rites ape spoken immediately after the words of Institution, are not primitive. It may be noted that at the end of the seventeenth century the question of Amens in the Canon of the Mass acquired an adventitious importance on account of the controversy between Dom Claude de Vert and Père Lebrun regarding the secrecy of the Canon. It is now commonly admitted that in the primitive liturgies the words of the Canon were spoken aloud so as to be heard by the people. For some reason, the explanation of which is not obvious, the Amen immediately before the Pater Noster is omitted in the solemn Mass celebrated by the Pope on Easter day.

Amen after communion

The Amen which in many liturgies is spoken by the faithful at the moment of receiving Holy Communion may also be traced back to primitive usage. The Pontificale Romanum still prescribes that at the ordination of clerics and on other similar occasions the newly-ordained in receiving Communion should kiss the bishop's hand and answer Amen when the bishop says to them: "May the Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ keep thy soul unto everlasting life" (Corpus Domini, etc.). It is curious that in the lately-discovered Latin life of St. Melania the Younger, of the early fifth century, we are told how the Saint in receiving Communion before death answered Amen and kissed the hand of the bishop who had brought it (see Cardinal Rampella, Santa Melania Giuniore, 1905, p. 257). But the practice of answering Amen is older than this. It appears in the Canons of Hippolytus (No. 146) and in the Egyptian Church Order (p. 101). Further, Eusebius (Church History VI.43) tells a story of the heretic Novatian (c. 250), how, at the time of Communion, instead of Amen he made the people say "I will not go back to Pope Cornelius". Also we have evidently an echo of the same practice in the Acts of St. Perpetua, A.D. 202 (Armitage Robinson, St. Perpetua, pp. 68, 80), and probably in Tertullian's phrase about the Christian profaning in the amphitheatre the lips with which he had spoken Amen to greet the All-Holy (De Spect., xxv). But nearly all the Fathers supply illustrations of the practice, notably St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catech., v, 18, P.G., XXIII, 1125).

Other uses

Finally, we may note that the word Amen occurs not infrequently in early Christian inscriptions, and that it was often introduced into anathemas and gnostic spells. Moreover, as the Greek letters which form Amen according to their numerical values total 99 (alpha=1, mu=40, epsilon=8, nu=50), this number often appears in inscriptions, especially of Egyptian origin, and a sort of magical efficacy seems to have been attributed to its symbol. It should also be mentioned that the word Amen is still employed in the ritual both of Jews and Mohammedans.

waduh pake kunci inggris jadi pucing nih

Tapi kok saya pernah liat di TV ketika pendeta berdo'a, para jemaat juga mengucapkan amen mas?

Makanya dibaca tulisan itu mas, apa yang anda tanyakan itu sudah ditulis di jawaban di atas itu. Hitung-hitung belajar bahasa Inggris lah, biar tambah pandai.

Ngomong-ngomong mas strik, apakah pertanyaan striker pada posting pertama ini sudah terjawab?

striker wrote:

Mas mas, saya penasaran nih.
Kalau tgl 25 kan diyakini oleh kristen sebagai hari lahirnya yesus, sehingga dirayakanlah hari natal.
Tapi yg memebuat saya penasaran, mengapa tahun baru dimulai setelah 7 hari kelahiran yesus ya mas? kenapa gak dimulai saat hari lahirnya Yesus? atau apakah tahun baru tidak ada hubungannya dengan yesus?
adakah mas mas yg sudi menjawab rasa penasaran saya?

Sudah ya?

Bahwa natal itu tidak terkait dengan cikal bakal pemberian istilah Masehi. Meski dinamai Masehi sementara yang dirayakan tanggal 25 Desember adalah kelahiran al Masehi, tetapi pemberian Masehi bagi penanggalan itu tidak terkait dengan tanggal 25 Dsember.

Husada wrote:

Ngomong-ngomong mas strik, apakah pertanyaan striker pada posting pertama ini sudah terjawab?

striker wrote:

Mas mas, saya penasaran nih.
Kalau tgl 25 kan diyakini oleh kristen sebagai hari lahirnya yesus, sehingga dirayakanlah hari natal.
Tapi yg memebuat saya penasaran, mengapa tahun baru dimulai setelah 7 hari kelahiran yesus ya mas? kenapa gak dimulai saat hari lahirnya Yesus? atau apakah tahun baru tidak ada hubungannya dengan yesus?
adakah mas mas yg sudi menjawab rasa penasaran saya?

Sudah ya?

Bahwa natal itu tidak terkait dengan cikal bakal pemberian istilah Masehi. Meski dinamai Masehi sementara yang dirayakan tanggal 25 Desember adalah kelahiran al Masehi, tetapi pemberian Masehi bagi penanggalan itu tidak terkait dengan tanggal 25 Dsember.

pertanyaan yg ini mas yg belum saya temukan jawabannya:
Utk natal sekarang (kemarin 25 December 2011) itu ulang tahun Yesus yg keberapa? 2011 ataukah 2010.
Kalau yg ke 2011, berarti Yesus ditetapkan lahir 7 hari sebelum tahun 1, karena tahun 1 juga dihitung.
Kalau yg ke 2010, berarti Yesus ditetapkan lahir 25 December 0001, jadi natal kemarin itu ulang tahun Yesus yg ke 2010.

striker wrote:

Husada wrote:

Ngomong-ngomong mas strik, apakah pertanyaan striker pada posting pertama ini sudah terjawab?

striker wrote:

Mas mas, saya penasaran nih.
Kalau tgl 25 kan diyakini oleh kristen sebagai hari lahirnya yesus, sehingga dirayakanlah hari natal.
Tapi yg memebuat saya penasaran, mengapa tahun baru dimulai setelah 7 hari kelahiran yesus ya mas? kenapa gak dimulai saat hari lahirnya Yesus? atau apakah tahun baru tidak ada hubungannya dengan yesus?
adakah mas mas yg sudi menjawab rasa penasaran saya?

Sudah ya?

Bahwa natal itu tidak terkait dengan cikal bakal pemberian istilah Masehi. Meski dinamai Masehi sementara yang dirayakan tanggal 25 Desember adalah kelahiran al Masehi, tetapi pemberian Masehi bagi penanggalan itu tidak terkait dengan tanggal 25 Dsember.

pertanyaan yg ini mas yg belum saya temukan jawabannya:
Utk natal sekarang (kemarin 25 December 2011) itu ulang tahun Yesus yg keberapa? 2011 ataukah 2010.
Kalau yg ke 2011, berarti Yesus ditetapkan lahir 7 hari sebelum tahun 1, karena tahun 1 juga dihitung.
Kalau yg ke 2010, berarti Yesus ditetapkan lahir 25 December 0001, jadi natal kemarin itu ulang tahun Yesus yg ke 2010.

Lha sejak kapan Natal itu perayaan Ulang Tahun Jesus, mas? Kapan ada upacara tiup lilinnya?

Ngga baca sebelumnya, bahwa Natal adalah perayaan peristiwa Kelahiran Jesus.
Jadi ngga merayakan Jesus sudah umur berapa, karena Jesus itu Tuhan, Ia sudah ada sejak permulaan, dan tetap ada hingga akhir jaman.

Paham bedanya?

Kalau belu, saya beri analogi nih.

Tanggal 22 Desember diperingati sebagai Hari Ibu. Jangn tanya ulang tahun Ibu yang keberapa ya.

Tanggal 21 April, diperingati sebagai Hari Kartini, dalam hal ini kita tahu tanggal dan tahun kelahiran Ibu Kartini, tetapi 21 April bukan perayaan ulang tahun Ibu Kartini, maka tidak ada yang hafal tgl 21 April 2011, itu perayaan ulang tahun Ibu Kartini yang keberapa, atau anda hafal?

Nah, udah paham ya, atau belum?

bruce wrote:

striker wrote:

Husada wrote:

Ngomong-ngomong mas strik, apakah pertanyaan striker pada posting pertama ini sudah terjawab?

striker wrote:

Mas mas, saya penasaran nih.
Kalau tgl 25 kan diyakini oleh kristen sebagai hari lahirnya yesus, sehingga dirayakanlah hari natal.
Tapi yg memebuat saya penasaran, mengapa tahun baru dimulai setelah 7 hari kelahiran yesus ya mas? kenapa gak dimulai saat hari lahirnya Yesus? atau apakah tahun baru tidak ada hubungannya dengan yesus?
adakah mas mas yg sudi menjawab rasa penasaran saya?

Sudah ya?

Bahwa natal itu tidak terkait dengan cikal bakal pemberian istilah Masehi. Meski dinamai Masehi sementara yang dirayakan tanggal 25 Desember adalah kelahiran al Masehi, tetapi pemberian Masehi bagi penanggalan itu tidak terkait dengan tanggal 25 Dsember.

pertanyaan yg ini mas yg belum saya temukan jawabannya:
Utk natal sekarang (kemarin 25 December 2011) itu ulang tahun Yesus yg keberapa? 2011 ataukah 2010.
Kalau yg ke 2011, berarti Yesus ditetapkan lahir 7 hari sebelum tahun 1, karena tahun 1 juga dihitung.
Kalau yg ke 2010, berarti Yesus ditetapkan lahir 25 December 0001, jadi natal kemarin itu ulang tahun Yesus yg ke 2010.

Lha sejak kapan Natal itu perayaan Ulang Tahun Jesus, mas? Kapan ada upacara tiup lilinnya?

Ngga baca sebelumnya, bahwa Natal adalah perayaan peristiwa Kelahiran Jesus.
Jadi ngga merayakan Jesus sudah umur berapa, karena Jesus itu Tuhan, Ia sudah ada sejak permulaan, dan tetap ada hingga akhir jaman.

Paham bedanya?

Kalau belu, saya beri analogi nih.

Tanggal 22 Desember diperingati sebagai Hari Ibu. Jangn tanya ulang tahun Ibu yang keberapa ya.

Tanggal 21 April, diperingati sebagai Hari Kartini, dalam hal ini kita tahu tanggal dan tahun kelahiran Ibu Kartini, tetapi 21 April bukan perayaan ulang tahun Ibu Kartini, maka tidak ada yang hafal tgl 21 April 2011, itu perayaan ulang tahun Ibu Kartini yang keberapa, atau anda hafal?

Nah, udah paham ya, atau belum?

Kartini lahir 21 April 1879, jadi nanti tanggal 21 April 2011 kemarin adalah peringatan hari lahir kartini yg ke 132 tahun setelah kelahirannya.

Apakah Natal bisa disamakan dengan hari2 besar seperti hari Ibu, Hari Aids sedunia dll?

Bahkan hari jadi suatu kota ada tertulis mas, ini hari jadi kota jakarta yg ke berapa misalnya.

Nah seperti yg anda katakan bahwa Natal adalah perayaan peristiwa Kelahiran Jesus, nah natal kematin itu perayaan (kalau tdk boleh disebut ultah) yg keberapa mas kalau boleh tahu? gitu lho mas maksud saya.

Quote :

Nah seperti yg anda katakan bahwa Natal adalah perayaan peristiwa Kelahiran Jesus, nah natal kematin itu perayaan (kalau tdk boleh disebut ultah) yg keberapa mas kalau boleh tahu? gitu lho mas maksud saya.

Tergantung telah berapa kali orang Kristen merayakan Natal tho mas.

striker wrote:

Nah seperti yg anda katakan bahwa Natal adalah perayaan peristiwa Kelahiran Jesus, nah natal kematin itu perayaan (kalau tdk boleh disebut ultah) yg keberapa mas kalau boleh tahu? gitu lho mas maksud saya.

Well ...well....well....

Hitung aja 500++ tahun maju dari total tahun Maulid Nabi, itupun jika anda tau ??

well ...well...well...

bruce wrote:

Quote :

Nah seperti yg anda katakan bahwa Natal adalah perayaan peristiwa Kelahiran Jesus, nah natal kematin itu perayaan (kalau tdk boleh disebut ultah) yg keberapa mas kalau boleh tahu? gitu lho mas maksud saya.

Tergantung telah berapa kali orang Kristen merayakan Natal tho mas.

Maksudnya?

heinskle wrote:

striker wrote:

Nah seperti yg anda katakan bahwa Natal adalah perayaan peristiwa Kelahiran Jesus, nah natal kematin itu perayaan (kalau tdk boleh disebut ultah) yg keberapa mas kalau boleh tahu? gitu lho mas maksud saya.

Well ...well....well....

Hitung aja 500++ tahun maju dari total tahun Maulid Nabi, itupun jika anda tau ??

well ...well...well...

Maksudnya?

Hehhehheee... kelihatannya pembahasan berlanjut ke hal-hal yang mulai menyimpang dari almanak, atau penanggalan, atau kalender Masehi.

striker wrote:

heinskle wrote:

striker wrote:

Nah seperti yg anda katakan bahwa Natal adalah perayaan peristiwa Kelahiran Jesus, nah natal kematin itu perayaan (kalau tdk boleh disebut ultah) yg keberapa mas kalau boleh tahu? gitu lho mas maksud saya.

Well ...well....well....

Hitung aja 500++ tahun maju dari total tahun Maulid Nabi, itupun jika anda tau ??

well ...well...well...

Maksudnya?

Well ....well....well....

Kalau jam pelajaran di sekolah, jangan tidur bro .....

well ....well ....well....

heinskle wrote:

striker wrote:

heinskle wrote:

striker wrote:

Nah seperti yg anda katakan bahwa Natal adalah perayaan peristiwa Kelahiran Jesus, nah natal kematin itu perayaan (kalau tdk boleh disebut ultah) yg keberapa mas kalau boleh tahu? gitu lho mas maksud saya.

Well ...well....well....

Hitung aja 500++ tahun maju dari total tahun Maulid Nabi, itupun jika anda tau ??

well ...well...well...

Maksudnya?

Well ....well....well....

Kalau jam pelajaran di sekolah, jangan tidur bro .....

well ....well ....well....

gak usah kebanyakan makan teWELL bro, mbok sampyan yg melek waktu pelajaran, menjelaskan kepada saya natal tahun kemarin itu perayaan kalhiran yesus yg ke berapa?

gak usah mbulat mbulet, kalau gak tahu juga gak apa kok, jadi member disini gak mesti harus sok tahu kok :afro:

striker wrote:

gak usah kebanyakan makan teWELL bro, mbok sampyan yg melek waktu pelajaran, menjelaskan kepada saya natal tahun kemarin itu perayaan kalhiran yesus yg ke berapa?

Well ...well...well....

Gak tau berapa tahun celebration Maulid nabi ??
well...well ...well...

Make it more simple questions ...
Bagaimana penanggalan tahun 2012, apakah mulai dari awal tahun 'Sebelum Masehi' atau " Sesudah Masehi " ?

Well ...well ...well ....ojo dikelas bro.....

heinskle wrote:

striker wrote:

gak usah kebanyakan makan teWELL bro, mbok sampyan yg melek waktu pelajaran, menjelaskan kepada saya natal tahun kemarin itu perayaan kalhiran yesus yg ke berapa?

Well ...well...well....

Gak tau berapa tahun celebration Maulid nabi ??
well...well ...well...

Make it more simple questions ...
Bagaimana penanggalan tahun 2012, apakah mulai dari awal tahun 'Sebelum Masehi' atau " Sesudah Masehi " ?

Well ...well ...well ....ojo dikelas bro.....

sudah menjadi kebiasaan rupanya, kalau pertanyaan dijawab dengan pertanyaan..

-jujur saya tdk tahu ini PERAYAAN maulud nabi yg keberapa, karena ketika Nabi masih hidup belum ada perayaan maulud Nabi.

-Nah sekarang jawab jujur, natal kemarin 25 Dec 2011, itu perayaan yg keberapa? gak usah mbulet, kalau gak tahu juga gak apa asal gak usah SOK TAHU!! malah pake nanya balik lagi, biar kelihatan pinter ya bro?